This will be one way we work together on this blog. Respond to the question; respond to other people's comments. Because I know you, I know that you will maintain standards of civil discourse.
What social issues does Charlotte Bronte address in Jane Eyre? What beliefs do her characters espouse which might have been revolutionary in England in 1840? Are any of the issues still relevant today? How do they resonate for you? Discuss.
Charlotte Bronte addresses issues in society such as the ideas of love requiring the sanctity of marriage, the stark contrast of the beautiful vs. the individualized in social rings, and she often shows the issues of deceit amongst human beings towards their fellow men. Beliefs that her characters have that would be revolutionary (as far as I can tell) would be the ideas of having a mistress because your wife is crazy, marrying your cousin just so she could help you be more productive in life, and the idea of gallivanting around sleeping with any number of girls because of your position in life. Issues that might still be relevant today are the concept of people thinking it is OK to cheat on someone who is crazy because you no longer care for them while they're still your wife, and also the concept of beautiful people going further in life.
ReplyDeleteThese issues don't really sit well with me because I don't think we should still have problems such as beautiful people being more highly praised because of their looks, nor should loveless marriages even exist with the lack of pressure on couples to get married. I think with the way life is today if you are going to get married you should be absolutely positive that you are ready to be with that person forever.
@rice I agree with you completely, but I also believe that in modern day society, people like bertha and rochester are not forced to marry for social status or wealth. People today have other incentives, such as unexpected pregnancy, or wanting to get away.
ReplyDeleteThe social issues that Charlotte Bronte addresses are orphans' treatment, marriage, and beggars. She shows the cruel treatment orphans get at the Lowood school, they are not fed right, kept plain, and remain sickly. She addresses marriage in a couple ways; first with Rochester (a marriage with love and deceit), then with St.John (a loveless marriage). She also addresses beggars and how people are unkind to them, all but the missionary(St.John).
ReplyDeleteHer characters revoltionize the idea of mistresses, keeping a lunatic locked up in an attic, and marrying out of class. Rochester had a good number of mistresses and expected Jane to join this list, when at the time most men married once and did not cheat. Cheating was rare and frowned apon, but Rochester did it freely. Most people in the 1840s with a mad person in their family would take them to the proper institute, but Rochester instead locks Bertha upstairs with an unfit keeper. Throughout the book, good marriage pairs are brought up. In England at this time people with money married other people with money. they thought it wrong to marry outside of money, like Rochester and Jane.
The idea of mistresses is still current today, but America has gotten used to it. Everyone hears about it all the time, and eventhough it is still frowned apon, it is more common. Insane people are delt with the same way today; they are put in the proper instituions, although most are put out on the streets instead of being hidden inside. Marriages are not usually about money, but that is because we do not have as strict of a caste system.
Having a mitress is never good because it never ends well. Just like in the book we see how Jane reacts when she has found out Rochester has had mistresses and intended her to be one. Insane people I think should be delt with more responibly and not locked up, or if need to be so, they should be locked up safely. The idea of marrying for money is out of date and rarely used now, but either way money should not be the deciding factor of marriage.
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ReplyDelete@vikki, I agree with you and see where you're coming from, but some of the stuff you say is opinion. For example, "Having a mistress is never good because it never ends well." That may be true for a lot of the times, but sometimes it's the complete opposite. What I'm trying to say is, maybe the mistress ends up with the guy in the end and everything works out well for her. Also, I see what you're saying with the idea of marrying for money and I agree with you and all, but there's still A LOT of people out there that marry for money today. They're just THAT greedy and THAT selfish that they only want to marry the person for their money and wealth, instead of the love. I do agree with you, though, that money shouldn't be the deciding factor for marriage.
ReplyDelete@ Rice i also agree with the issues you said were addresssd by Bronte. I really think the BIG one here is about love and marriage. I think that Bronte is trying to say that lave and marriage at least in the book dont have to go hand in hand for example Rochester really loved Jane but he wanted her to be his mistress not his wife. Another example of this is ST John when he proposed to Jane it was not out of love that he wnated to marry Jane but out of his obligation to God. I thin kthat this issue is still prevalent today. There are alot of people today that didnt do what Jane did and they went on and comitted to a loveless marriage and that isnt what love nor marriage should consist of.
ReplyDelete@ Rice, I completely agree with what you are saying. Jane was a feminist in a sort of way though because of her "incorrect" views. She does what a woman in the 1840's would never consider doing. She talks back to people, who are on a higher level, constantly such as Rochester and St.John.She believes in what a normal woman wouldn't believe which also makes her more popular. Most woman these days still face the problems of not being able to speak their mind. They are plagued with the consent that "a woman should be seen and not heard." She also completely disagrees with what Rochester and what he says about marriage. She knows that if he is still married, she is considered a mistress and she doesn't want to take any chances. So she forfeits being married to her one true love and moves away to a land that is completely unknown.
ReplyDeleteI agree with @Rice, but if there weren't marriages where people just married to get ahead in life or relationships where a man is still married, but has a mistress, we wouldn't have things such as divorce or polygamy. Not saying the marrying for those reasons are right, but it happens.
ReplyDelete@Viki, I really don't remember any good marriages that were in the book. In the Reed marriage, it didn't seem like a good marriage because when Mr. Reed died, Mrs. Reed didn't obey his last wishes. Ms. Fairfax's husband died and well as you all know Bertha was just plain crazy and even though Rochester took care of her, he could care less of her.
@Alicia, I agree that people still marry for money.
I think another social issue might be a woman's independency. It was very rare for a women in the 1840s to not be married and have a few children at Jane's age. Women were thought of to be dependent on the man, but in Jane we see her self-governing personality. She is the one who decided to leave LoWood and go to Thornfield, it was her decision to leave Thornfield because of the circumstances and then to work at Manor. In the end who was dependent on who. Rochester became dependent on Jane because he was blind.
@Josie I think your right, the idea of an unmarried, childless women in 1840s England would have been ridiculous to most. Everyone in that time period was more focused on having a family rather then focusing on a job or even your cousins. I think Charlotte Bronte really overstepped boundaries when she decided to focus the whole book on an independent women, especially considering she was pretending to be a man when she wrote the book.
ReplyDelete@Rice I totally forgot about Charlotte Bronte pretending to be a man, that just adds to the issue on Jane being her own woman. Another reason why women were thought of less than men. She had to pretend to be a male writer, just so her book would sell. Just a thought, but maybe Bronte wrote about an independent woman because she wished she could be a little like Jane and not disguise herself as a man just to get ahead.
ReplyDeleteCHET:
ReplyDeleteCharlotte Bronte addresses social issues such as physical and personal misconception, female treatment, and class. The issue of misconception doesn't strictly associate with the characters but the places as well. Lowood's exterior was described as a beautiful place, serene, and colorful; somewhat of an escape for Jane compared to what happens behind the walls. As for characters, Jane's first impression of Mr. Rochester was just shy of displeasure. However, she begins to develop a burning passion for this man. But misconception falls into the entire situation of Jane being unaware of the lunatic wife in the attic vs her views of Tornfield and her desire for Rochester.
The manner in which females are treated is a biggie in Jane Eyre. Being an orphan in an unloving and abusive family and sent off to an all girl orphanage, Jane never had the opportunity to see beyond the grip of the superior hold upon her. This superior rule continues as she leaves Loowood. However it is not on an abusive level, just on a commanding level. Being before the womens' rights movement, the women in the novel see it as normal for a man to be ruling in their life.
Much like today, classes were greatly separated. In the beginning, Jane was asked if she had any family. She says she does but follows up by saying they are "poor." Poor or not, it would have benefited her to have located them and it turns out they were rich, at least her uncle was.
Revolutionary beliefs these characters would show are cheating on your spouse. @Rice & Vikki-I agree that even though the spouse may be crazy, there's still the whole marriage issue. It's very different from today because it seems that in those times people were a lot more dedicated in marriage; cheating was a rarity.
The issue of misconception, female treatment and cheating are very alive and well today. Unfortunately, people tend to dwell on the positives of something they may come across(whatever it may be). Coincidentally, they wont take notice of the issues that may be right there in front of them. These issues may come up to be cheating or being treated a certain way (maybe less authority or say).
@Josie- I agree with the woman's independence thing. It was rare for a woman to be that way during those time, frankly because they had such limited rights. Nevertheless, Jane defies this.
You guys are smart, and you're on to a number of important issues. @Rice: thanks for getting the ball rolling. I like the idea that deception--people not being who they purport to be--and higher class rank as some kind of license to behave in any way you want are social issues Bronte addresses. I'd add the word "hyprocrisy" to the list, as she seems to skewer people who purport to be one thing (Brocklehurst, the patron of the poor) and are really another (Brocklehurst, abusive and neglectful murderer of orphan girls). Victorian England was full of people and institutions which purported to behave in one way but had a seamy underside. Class differences were stark and the rich tended not to "see" the poor. Hypocrisy is still with us today--now we just have a media system that either exposes and sensationalizes or numbs the public into complacency. Of course, class issues still simmer and occasionally boil over.
ReplyDelete@Brianna, Victoria, Alicia: in some ways, Bronte does a really good job exploring the complexities of relationships--who you love and who you marry not always being the same; the role of deception in relationships (are you really your genuine self in a relationship--especially at the beginning?); are the qualities which first attract those which will see a relationship through?
@Anana, CCC, and Josie: I also believe that many of the issues raised in Jane Eyre are still relevant today (one of the criteria for choosing books is to try to imagine what the hook, the way in, will be for you guys as readers: no hook, no book). Jane's strength of character--her independent willingness to speak truth to those with power over her and her scrupulous adherence to personal values--still seem rather remarkable to me. Now, obviously, the narration is from Jane's POV, looking back after the fact, so might she be inclined to tell her story in a particularly positive light?
@Chet: the concept of "connexion" does seem important--access to family, money, social status all plague Jane and other characters throughout the novel. Of course, we've all risen above such petty concerns...
@Steiner-What petty concerns are you talking about?
ReplyDelete@Chet I believe Steiner is being sarcastic in suggesting that everyone nowadays has risen about the plague of social status, money, and family issues.
ReplyDelete@Steiner It was no problem, I felt like no one was taking an initiative because they didn't want to be singled out as the first person to say anything. Hypocrisy did pass through my head as a possible social issue within the book; however, I couldn't think of that as being anywhere near as big of a deal today in our culture, people seem to have less of an opportunity to be a hypocrite with so much transparency in press and on the internet. It seems like people being hypocritical on a large scale such as with Brocklehurst, because the media would grab the issue and blow it out of proportion, ending in eternal damnation for the accused.
In this book i think a social issue Bronte addresses is love i completely agree with @Rice on that. She shows how love and religion and survival relate . she shows how people interact with other people b/c of those things. i think her characters in this book believe that everything should go there way when it comes to love, such as St. john demanding Jane to marry him and Rochester trying to have a mistress because he is married and doesn't want to abandon his wife. I think it is very relevant today because people think they can get what ever they want when it comes to love by cheating on lovers and forcing people to do things they dont want to do when it comes to love.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with @Iris and @Josie about there view of how Jane is a feminist. @chet i agree with the social issues you present.
The issues that Bronte addresses is how orphans are mistreated this is similar to the way kids are treated in foster care. Today a lot of kids are mistreated just like Jane is mistreated by Mrs. Reed and in Lowood but today i think that the conditions are worse. In foster care today many kids are get raped and beat although Jane was mistreated she did not get raped. One social issue is that Bertha was forced to marry Mason that is not a problem today because people are not forced to marry. Today people can marry who they please and the marriages aren't arranged. A social issue that is the same as today is that fact that people beg for food. When Jane left Thornfield she was poor and had to beg for food. Today there are many people that are poor and beg for food.
ReplyDelete@rice.. i totally agree with your comments on love needing the closure of marriage. It was clear that rochester didn't love bertha and maybe in his eyes it was best to just lock her away and pursue his own goals at her expenses.
ReplyDeletei would also add that Bronte addresses the possible existance of the supernatural realm. numerous times throughout the novel she introduces the idea that there are spirits or some supernatural symbolism, such as jane's dreams, that seem to move the plot along. she even intoduceses God asn thre character of st. john to add to this religeous theme.
@Rice I think hypocrisy is still an issue in today's society. You could always still be affected by someone being a hypocrite in day to day life so it's still affecting society today. The scale may be lower but it would still be considered a problem in society even without the big to-do about it. Something happening again and again in just normal society should be (though not always considered) just as big a problem as something done by a status figure, in which case the media would intervene.
ReplyDeleteJESSICA[K]
ReplyDelete@STEINER> I understand about the whole 'hypocrisy'thing. Such as the way the teachers at Lowood (BROCKLEHURST) abused religion to control the children and sort of 'brainwash' them into thinking they were full of sin almost o matter what they did.
@Jessica I see your point, it seems like a consistently occurring issue should be such as big of a problem as a large status figure doing it once. I hadn't looked at it at that view.
ReplyDeleteI believe the main social issue that Jane address is marriage. She gives examples of good marriages and deceitful ones. Overall the deceitful marriages played a big part in the book. Rochester deceives Bertha by wanting to marry Jane while he is still married. This shows how though Rochester was willing to marry Jane, he was also deceiving her because of his lack of honesty.
ReplyDeleteThis issues is still relevant today because it is impossible for someone to do what Rochester intends to do to Jane and Bertha
If we all take the time to really analyze this book, I think we would all find that in general this is about a girl's journey through life and how she transitions into adulthood. The book opens up with Jane's life being miserable, but ends with her being happy.
ReplyDeleteI think Charlotte Bronte is using Jane's life to address major topics such as the ones mentioned above by various people, but I would like to go deeper into the whole "mistress" thing. Here's a question: Is the author trying to allude to the fact that men may be more prone to cheat in the future,( as was said above, cheating was rare) or is she trying to provide an example of someone who refused to be a mistress, and in turn still ended up with the man she loved?